Furmetal Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) so this says it should benefit from pvp power but also be affected by resilience? Do you know what that means? +60% absorb from pvp power and a -80% from resilience :D -> 1*1.6*0.2=32% of the current absorb and this will probably make 9/11 dks delete their characters Actually it should only be affected by resilience. And it is. But it shouldn't be affected by PvP Power, which it was(reason why we had some really high Necrotic Strikes). Anyway, now going back to Neff, if it were indeed affected by PvP Power, the Necrotic Strikes wouldn't be so absurd like it was before, my theory is that it was being affected twice or something like that. A friend of mine was whining on my Skype about that fix and I showed her/him the formula. See below the screenshot of her character's status and the formula. http://i.imgur.com/Mn9M2lR.jpg 74259 attack power PvP Power = 60.40% Resilience = 80.11%(due to the resilience bug), but lets round to 80.00% 74259 * 2,25 = 167082 167082* 1,6040 = 267999 267999 * 0,80 = 214399 267999 - 214399 = ~53600 (still lower than the average 60k~~80k we had) But, currently, without PvP Power(which is how it should work): 167082 * 0,80 = 133665 167082 - 133665 = ~33417 Numbers are rounded so the results aren't exact. Also, it doesn't has the 1% variant, since it does not count as damage nor healing. Still, I don't think that the spell is wrong now, we both got sources, and yours contradicts mine and vice-versa. http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/238199-dk-changes-may-14th/#entry3887418 The second post below this one says that it is no longer affected by PvP Power. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7789139052 Invalid, its too old, some even said that the Necrotic Strike's absorb scales with mastery. http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/234282-so-necrotic-got-a-buff/#entry3813495 http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/234282-so-necrotic-got-a-buff/page__st__20#34 - Same thread, Death Knight had 60.40% PvP Power, only reachable on Season 15(~~5.4.7/5.4.8.) and he is dealing the same Necrotic Strikes as we are on Pandawow(no procs/etc). http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2849-MoP-Art-on-Battle-net-Obsidian-Nightwing-RAF-Mount-Live-Blue-Posts-The-Daily-Blink: "and its heal absorb component has been increased from 70% of AP to 100% of AP and benefits from PvP Power now." weren't it 225%? Seems outdated(specially because it also says that it was on Mists of Pandaria Beta). Also, why didn't you make this thread in the russian section, in which there would be much more support(in my opinion, I've never been there yet) and maybe even some contact with the administrators? Or am I just being naive and there is no such thing? Edited October 31, 2015 by Furmetal
Developers Neff Posted October 31, 2015 Author Developers Posted October 31, 2015 Ok, what about movie? (21:50 - 22:02). This dk did 87.6k NS with all procs. How it happened, if pvp power is not affects NS? We can calculate for example: If we removed a pvp power from calculation, this dk should have 194667 attack power, this number cant be reached with pvp gear even with all pots, buffs and etc. (194666 * 2.25) * 0.2 = 87600 NS absorb With pvp power, this dk should have 121667 attack power and 60% pvp power, these numbers are possible in pvp gear. (121667 * 2.25) * 1.6 * 0.2 = 87600 NS absorb
Furmetal Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Ok, what about movie? (21:50 - 22:02). This dk did 87.6k NS with all procs. How it happened, if Video is from 5.4.7. and we don't have data from it. The only thing that we can see is, if you pay attention, you can see a mini combat log to the right, and at 22:03~~22:04 you can see that he is actually doing 13.5k~~14.1k necrotic strikes. This is could be the weapon damage.
Developers Neff Posted October 31, 2015 Author Developers Posted October 31, 2015 Video is from 5.4.7. and we don't have data from it. 5.4.8: (2:38 - 2:45). Dk did ~80k NS with procs.
Furmetal Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) 5.4.8: (2:38 - 2:45). Dk did ~80k NS with procs. All procs, two trinkets, unholy frenzy, that one passive that increases attack power(the one with the purple icon with two swords), horn of winter and mark of the wild. I'll test this later. Also, at 6:28 he did a 50k Necrotic Strike while with the purple buff. He isn't full gear. At ~~0:48 he Necrotic Striked the rogue for 43.5k with the purple buff. I took a look at retail's armory and there is no character named Deathmouse that is an at least level 90 human death knight. It says that hes from Drakthul in the description of the video(and the armory linked is unavailable). I find it quite improbable that a PvP video can be used as a more reliable source - specially because he did not share his status - than one of these database websites, such as wowhead or wowpedia. Unfortunately, my friend is offline so we can't test today, but we will do it tomorrow and I'll post the results. This thread seems to be very unlikely to be succeeded. Edited October 31, 2015 by Furmetal Update
Noneedholy Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) 5.4.8: (2:38 - 2:45). Dk did ~80k NS with procs. he already hat 17k necrotic up. He just added 63k necro. Watch it on 0.25 speed :3 All procs, two trinkets, unholy frenzy, that one passive that increases attack power(the one with the purple icon with two swords), horn of winter and mark of the wild. I'll test this later. Also, at 6:28 he did a 50k Necrotic Strike while with the purple buff. He isn't full gear. At ~~0:48 he Necrotic Striked the rogue for 43.5k with the purple buff. I took a look at retail's armory and there is no character named Deathmouse that is an at least level 90 human death knight. It says that hes from Drakthul in the description of the video(and the armory linked is unavailable). I find it quite improbable that a PvP video can be used as a more reliable source - specially because he did not share his status - than one of these database websites, such as wowhead or wowpedia. Unfortunately, my friend is offline so we can't test today, but we will do it tomorrow and I'll post the results. This thread seems to be very unlikely to be succeeded. If you had that on pandawow ... rip you did over 100k absorb. Edited October 31, 2015 by Noneedholy
Developers Neff Posted October 31, 2015 Author Developers Posted October 31, 2015 he already hat 17k necrotic up. He just added 63k necro. Watch it on 0.25 speed :3 17k -> 81k (+64k) -> 161.9k (+81k) -> 147.6k (-14k) -> 228.6k (+81k).
dotadoom Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) if it is indeed afected by resilience then it should also be afected by pvp power imo. Maybe blizzard had a hidden nerf coeficient or something that balanced it a bit (like the invisible -25% PvP dmg nerf of Chaos Bolt). The only way to discover this is by watching videos of a retail DK during 5.4.8 where he shows his stats and also uses NS while showing the absorb. Then you can reverse-engineer the formula and find out how it sould be. (a static number of "50-60k is normal in blizzard" is not really enough but it's something) Edited October 31, 2015 by dotadoom 3
Furmetal Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Ran the tests. See spoiler for details. AP = 70985 PvP Power = 60.40% Current = 31760 no procs With fallen crusader = 36505 Resilience = 80.11% 70985 * 2,25 = 159716 159716 * 0,8011 = 127946 159716 - 127946 = 31770(close enough since numbers are rounded). Necrotic seems to be working as intended.
Jonte Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 And no it doesnt benefit from PvP power. (21-May-2013): Necrotic Strike's healing absorption effect has been increased to 225% from attack power, up from 200%. Taken straight from WoW-Wiki
Furmetal Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 (21-May-2013): Necrotic Strike's healing absorption effect has been increased to 225% from attack power, up from 200%. Taken straight from WoW-Wiki Proves nothing.
Jonte Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Proves nothing. Nevermind, i confused PvP Power with Attack Power.
Jonte Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Actually it should only be affected by resilience. And it is. But it shouldn't be affected by PvP Power, which it was(reason why we had some really high Necrotic Strikes) Are you talking about retail or pandawow only? because i found a forum where a player that was playing at the time says that necrotics are affected/increased by pvp power (not saying hes right but i believe hes right) And in my opinion i dont mind how necrotic absorbs was before, i was playing when it was at its "worse" aka "when the debuff could be stacked at its highest for the longest without getting "nerfed or "fixed" and i always managed, and i was playing a holy paladin at 2,4k cr.
Furmetal Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Are you talking about retail or pandawow only? because i found a forum where a player that was playing at the time says that necrotics are affected/increased by pvp power (not saying hes right but i believe hes right) I am talking about retail. And it was not affected by PvP Power, since it is neither counted as damage nor healing(or shields). You can also see several threads about people complaining about Necrotic Strike's usefulness on retail.
Jonte Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 I am talking about retail. Okay i just found a Unholy DK guide from 5.4.8 made by a high rated DK where he states "Also PvP power gems do not affect the health absorption stack of your necrotic strike." So, my bad.
Señorpujo Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) "This ability is meant to bring back some of the old flavor from when death knights could dispel heal-over-time (HoT) effects. It also gives the class a bit more PvP utility without simply replicating a [Mortal Strike]-style effect, and is extremely effective against healers." , "Healers playing against death knights should be particularly aware of Necrotic Strike, whether on themselves or their allies. One of the main dangers of the ability is that healers will leave healing until the last minute; with Necrotic Strike debuffs in place this can spell disaster. The best answer to this is probably to be vigilant when facing DKs" - http://wow.gamepedia.com/Necrotic_Strike (In pandawow is 0 anoying, when u aplly 1 necro on a heal, before 1 second pass he cleaned the effect) The first problem is that a spell that should be a powerful spell vs heals, its useless as fuck in pandawow. The second problem is that dk should be a powerful hero class, and its more like a useles class in all his specs in pandawow now. Almost no one plays dk now (i just see people getting gear) because is useles as fuck compared to all the other classes, dk should be one of the best heal counters, and its a shit on preasure now, even dps specs can clean necrotics so ez and hold his low damage. If u check top 100 on 2c2, there are just 3 dks.. Edited November 14, 2015 by Señorpujo
Noneedholy Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 The first problem is that a spell that should be a powerful spell vs heals, its useless as fuck in pandawow. The second problem is that dk should be a powerful hero class, and its more like a useles class in all his specs in pandawow now. and the 3rd problem is that people don't understand how to play a class proper and QQ. dk should be one of the best heal counters no. And thats why dk's didn't exist in 3s back in s15. They were simply not good as other classes, deal with it
Frostshotz Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 This server is trying to be retail like, don't ask for buffs/nerfs.
Repitchx Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 If u check top 100 on 2c2, there are just 3 dks.. if u check the ladder u see r1 rogue in 2s is r28 & r1 rogue in 3s is r92 please... lel dks during s15 were shit, they were not strong. only bracket they were decent was 2s.
Señorpujo Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) "This ability is meant to bring back some of the old flavor from when death knights could dispel heal-over-time (HoT) effects. It also gives the class a bit more PvP utility without simply replicating a [Mortal Strike]-style effect, and is extremely effective against healers." , "Healers playing against death knights should be particularly aware of Necrotic Strike, whether on themselves or their allies. One of the main dangers of the ability is that healers will leave healing until the last minute; with Necrotic Strike debuffs in place this can spell disaster. The best answer to this is probably to be vigilant when facing DKs" - http://wow.gamepedia.com/Necrotic_Strike Then all of this is totally false, and no one should play dk in MoP expansion because u say blizzard make it unbalanced? Edited November 14, 2015 by Señorpujo
pujo2 Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Its suposed to be a powerful spell.. and its a fuking shit here now. Here u use 1 necro and before 1 seconds past its cleaned, there is no point on that.. Edited November 14, 2015 by pujo2
Nemifest Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Its suposed to be a powerful spell.. and its a fuking shit here now. Here u use 1 necro and before 1 seconds past its cleaned, there is no point on that.. That's how it's supposed to be..? Why don't you just show us some blizzard formula that it says it should be so "powerfull" as you suppose.
Juster Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 Fixed, will be apply after update(on next week I guess). Previous proofs is wrong, we restore affect PvP-Power on this spell.
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