Lava Lash (with proof)

[kaibakor2012]

1. http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash

 

2. Everything about http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash's damage formula seems to be wrong. Lava Lash should deal 300% Off Hand weapon Damage and is affected by Mastery. It can get further increased by 40% and another 7% by using the Flametongue Weapon imbue and another up to 100% (20% per stack) if you place a http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=3599/searing-totem and get up to 5 stacks of Searing Flames. http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash 's damage should NOT be increased by http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=73680/unleash-elements .

 

So let's do a little math now shall we?

 

First, note, that the dummy I am testing on does NOT mitigate http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash 's damage in any way so what you're seeing on the following screenshots is as accurate as possible.

 

So what I did first is I stripped off all of my gear.. The only items I left were two really low ilvl weapons without any stats on them:

 

 

http://s17.postimg.org/jxl3uj8ce/image.jpg

 

 

You can see that my Off Hand damage is 21 - 24. We will test with the lowest possible - 21.. I also have 26% Mastery and have imbued both my weapons with Frostbrand Weapon (a.k.a I don't have Flametongue Weapon).

 

So that means that the damage that my http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash should do should be around 21 * 3 * 1.26 = 79.38 = 79 in-game. Here is how much damage I did:

 

 

http://s11.postimg.org/6drq0swhu/image.jpg

 

 

So far so good. Let's proceed...

 

So I imbued my Off Hand weapon with Flametongue. That means that the minimum I deal should be 79.38 * 1.4 * 1.07 = 118.91124 = 119 in-game.

 

 

http://s12.postimg.org/dkwg2aomk/image.jpg

 

 

I did 117 - lower than the lowest possible damage I could do. As it turns out, http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash does not benefit from the 7% magical damage increase of Flametongue Weapon. If that's truly the case then the minimum possible damage would be 79.38 * 1.4 = 111.132 = 111 in-game so we will use this from now one.

 

That's one bug so far. Flametongue Weapon doesn't increase http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash 's damage by 7% as it should.

 

Now that we've figured out that the damage isn't increased by 7% from the Flametongue Weapon we will test if Searing Flames work. As that is way too much work you will have to trust me on this:

 

• One stack: 127 damage where the minimum should be 111.32 * 1.2 = 134.
  
• 
  
• Two stacks: 148 damage where the minimum should be 156.
  
• 
  
• Three stacks: 169 damage where the minimum should be 178.
  
• 
  
• Four stacks: 181 damage where the minimum should be 200.
  
• 
  
• Five stacks: 212 damage where the minimum should be 223.
  

 

Proof of the 5 stacks damage being lower than the lowest expected damage by 11, even when we've taken out the 7% from Flametongue Weapon out of the equation:

 

 

http://s10.postimg.org/8hdhqmeo8/image.jpg

 

 

So there's the second bug - Searing Flames increase http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash 's damage by a lower amount than they should.

 

And now on to the third bug (I even made a video of it):

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiWxPE-JxlQ

 

 

http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=73680/unleash-elements affects http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash while it shouldn't.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now to the part where things get extremely strange. I decided to keep the weapons but equip my best gear. What happened in terms of Off Hand weapon damage and mastery was this:

 

 

http://s30.postimg.org/86ujk3s28/image.jpg

 

 

My expected highest damage without Flametongue Weapon was 1,839 * 3 * 1.4844 = 8189.4348 = 8,189 damage in-game. What I got was quite a bit higher:

 

 

http://s1.postimg.org/7077ht1ce/image.jpg

 

 

Then I imbued my Off Hand with Flametongue. Keeping in mind that the 7% damage increase is not working my highest expected damage was 8189.4348 * 1.4 = 11465.20872 = 11,465 damage in-game. Here's what I got:

 

 

http://s28.postimg.org/sguwajc2k/image.jpg

 

 

Still higher.. just not as much.. The funny thing is that it was clearly a bit higher than my highest expected damage but Flametongue Weapon didn't really increase the damage I got with Frostbrand Weapon by 40% either. If it did the damage would have been 10,822 * 1.4 = 15150.8 = 15,151 damage in-game, and not 11,580. This pretty much doesn't have an explanation.

 

Anyways.. I tested Searing Flames as well. The expected lowest damage with 5 stacks was 1,835 * 3 * 1.4844 * 1.4 * 2 = 22880.5416 = 22,881 damage in-game. And if the damage I got on the last screenshot was to be increased by Searing Flames' 5 stacks it would be 11,580 * 2 = 23,160. Yet what I got was lower than both:

 

 

http://s2.postimg.org/e4m1r3wh4/image.jpg

 

 

Lastly, I got back to my previous gear (just low ilvl weapons, nothing else). The damage without Flametongue Weapon and without Searing Flames was just right (79). So I went to a pally and asked him to buff me with Blessing of Might. I got Well Fed for Mastery as well. I went to the dummy and, without Flametongue Weapon, the result was this:

 

 

http://s23.postimg.org/rdftpq68a/Wo_WScrn_Shot_012615_151519.jpg

 

 

The minimum damage that I should've done was 21 * 3 * 1.3667 = 86.1021 = 86 damage in-game. but I did 82. Apparenty mastery isn't scaling properly either.

 

3.

1. Flametongue Weapon should increase http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash 's damage by 7% as it's magical damage.
   
2. Searing Flames should increase http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash 's damage by 20% per stack, not lower.
   
3. http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=73680/unleash-elements should not affect http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash .
   
4. Mastery should.. work correctly, I guess?
   
5. And god knows what else that is wrong with this spell and the passives affecting it's formulas should.. not be as bugged?
   

 

4. 26.01.15

 

5. Fun

 

6. 6/10

Edited January 26, 2015 by kaibakor2012

[JohnnyPoozang]

Wtf dude the ability damage calculations are wrong, where's normalization?!...You just took the minimun/maximun weapon damage and you put it in the spell formula o.O.

 

Then the only problem is mastery... watch the screens on my thread, I added a 10% more Mastery and the average damage was increased by 3% only.

I checked personally the 7% bonus and Searing flame. They works perfectly fine. As I wrote on my thread low level weapon acts strangely on this Pandawow, if you don't believe me, try to test Windfury with one. With a low level weapon it works, but not with a high level one.

 

Why wouldn't you stick to my thread, what you don't like about it? It says the same things (mastery bug only) then the calculations are at least accurate and correct. You are only creating confusion, stop please.

Edited January 26, 2015 by JohnnyPoozang

[kaibakor2012]

But of course that I do not like your thread.

 

1. You DO NOT normalize damage in MoP.. Damage in the Character Sheet is already normalized.. this is not Vanilla.
    
   
2. You just magically assume that everything else except mastery is working properly while it CLEARLY isn't. The 7% damage increase is CLEARLY not working. Doing 10,822 damage without Flametongue Weapon and 11,580 damage with Flametounge Weapon which should increase the damage by 47% is most certainly not right either. And Searing Flames, is also CLEARLY not increasing the damage properly. Even if my calculations were wrong, low ilvl weapons were acting weird indeed and the damage had to be indeed normalized - Searing Flames should simply double the damage while it clearly DOES NOT.
    
   
3. You refuse to accept that Unleash Elements is actually increasing Lava Lash's damage, even though I've thrown like 20 OBVIOUS proofs at you already, probably abusing the bug quietly.

[garlikas]

Johnny if you have ever played retail you would know that unleashed elements doesn't increas lava lash damage.

[lickmyorbs]

Dummies do have armor ._.

[JohnnyPoozang]

But of course that I do not like your thread.

 

1. You DO NOT normalize damage in MoP.. Damage in the Character Sheet is already normalized.. this is not Vanilla.
    
   
2. You just magically assume that everything else except mastery is working properly while it CLEARLY isn't. The 7% damage increase is CLEARLY not working. Doing 10,822 damage without Flametongue Weapon and 11,580 damage with Flametounge Weapon which should increase the damage by 47% is most certainly not right either. And Searing Flames, is also CLEARLY not increasing the damage properly. Even if my calculations were wrong, low ilvl weapons were acting weird indeed and the damage had to be indeed normalized - Searing Flames should simply double the damage while it clearly DOES NOT.
    
   
3. You refuse to accept that Unleash Elements is actually increasing Lava Lash's damage, even though I've thrown like 20 OBVIOUS proofs at you already, probably abusing the bug quietly.

 

 

1) Never heard of such a thing, all the forums and even on Wowhead spells and ability damage calculation aren't done with character sheet "already normalized" info. And I doubt so, you're using a dagger as off-hand to test... Nuff said.

 

2) You're the one who's assuming something is bugged, as you don't have an average damage info, but only screens of a single damage hit.

Mastery is bugged and is a fact, didn't you see my screenshot where I did test with a 10% more mastery and the average damage of LL resulted only 3% higher???! Are you blind, or just trolling?

 

3)Searing flames and flametongue bonuses works just fine, because I had checked them before having done the test with all modifiers up. Didn't bother to post screens of something thaz's working.

 

4) My Lava Lash is not affected by Unleash flame and it never consumed the effect. You think I won't notice that my LL is hitting 30% harder, when I hit players with an average of 50-60k damage LLs?!

Then, abusing it? Lol even if it was bugged enhancement wouldn't have any advantage, as the base damage of Elemental Blast is way higher and so is its critical strike chance, so good try, but you failed ;).

 

Ps: I don't want to argue with you man, nor I like it, remember that we're in the same boat, we're just trying to finally get this awesome spec fixed. Which's by the way ignored here, as enhas can be counted with the fingers of an hand :(.

Edited January 26, 2015 by JohnnyPoozang

[JohnnyPoozang]

Johnny if you have ever played retail you would know that unleashed elements doesn't increas lava lash damage.

 

Show me where I actually wrote it should.

[dotadoom]

perhaps some of these bonuses are additive and not multiplicative, maybe there are even some invisible modifiers or "hot fixes" that change the spell but do not show it in the tooltip (for example rogue's ambush was boosted by 12% and yet the tooltip says 470% instead of 530% weapon damage)

 

also @JohnnyPoozang

when you increase mastery from 55% to 65%, that's not 10% more damage, in fact it is ~6% (1.65/1.55)

[JohnnyPoozang]

perhaps some of these bonuses are additive and not multiplicative, maybe there are even some invisible modifiers or "hot fixes" that change the spell but do not show it in the tooltip (for example rogue's ambush was boosted by 12% and yet the tooltip says 470% instead of 530% weapon damage)

 

also @JohnnyPoozang

when you increase mastery from 55% to 65%, that's not 10% more damage, in fact it is ~6% (1.65/1.55)

 

I know, but I had a bit more AP than the previous test, so the final average damage increase should of have been around 8-10%, not certainly 3% as the test has shown. Mastery is bugged, at least with LL.

Also Lava Lash haven't had any hotfixes, only a big buff in 5.3.

Damage modifiers works just fine because I checked them adding one step by step before the final testing.

Edited January 26, 2015 by JohnnyPoozang

[kaibakor2012]

Usually either wow.gamepedia or wowhead would provide the needed hotfix info. There are tooltip/patch notes (including hotfixes) changelogs in both sites so it is extremely unlikely that neither one of those sites adresses some invisible hotfix. So I really doubt that's the case.

 

However, some of these bonuses might indeed be additive instead of multiplicative but I really have no idea how to check that. Anyways.. barely a 1k damage difference between Flametongue and non-Flametongue damage is ridiculously odd even if the Flametongue bonus was additive.

[JohnnyPoozang]

With Lava Lash scaling wrongly with Mastery, the more high ItemLevel equip you get, the more potential damage you lose. That's why maybe with no equip you can't notice Mastery wrong scaling: it's like if you create a yardstick of 0,999 m instead of 1 m. Obviously the error wouldn't be noticeable and won't change anything while measuring small distances, but with larges ones, the error would be more than evident, very noticeable and critical. Edited January 26, 2015 by JohnnyPoozang

[kaibakor2012]

Obviously you haven't read my OP at all so I'll write a short TL;DR for you:

 

1. I equipped low ilvl weapons only. I tested the damage, it was perfectly fine.
    
   
2. Then I tested with Flametongue - it was lower than it should've been. Figured that the 7% increase isn't working.
    
   
3. Tested Searing Flames.. each and every stack of it - increased the damage by a lower ammount that it should've.
    
   
4. I equipped all my gear except weapons and tested.. damage was actually HIGHER than it should've been until I tested Searing Flames which increased the damage so little that it became lower than it should at the end.
    
   
5. Then I tested with no gear, low ilvl weapons and mastery buffs.. Damage turned out to be lower than it should've been.

 

 

In the end, damage is sometimes lower than it should, sometimes it's higher than it should. Some damage bonuses are working in some cases, in other cases - they are working improperly, in third - they aren't working at all. I'm starting to think that there is no logical explanation for this ability's behaviour.

[JohnnyPoozang]

Calculations are wrong, how are you supposed to find out that something is really bugged? ur using a dagger as off-hand and you didn't even normalizate

[kaibakor2012]

Ok. If I hit the dummy every single time for 10k with Lava Lash and then hit it for 18k with 5 stacks of Searing Flames, then I guess that Searing Flames isn't bugged for increasing my damage by 80% instead of 100% but my calculations are wrong in some mysterious way. I'll write that down so I know it for the next time I test something. I'll write something else down as well - never test anything with a dagger because all calculations become obsolete (again in a very mysterious way) when you're using one. Rogue bugs apparently have no way to be tested, though.. Fuck rogues :(

 

Unleash Elements affects my Lava Lash all the time but I guess I'm just wrong and it's all me imagining things cause I didn't "normalizate", isn't it? Too bad then :(

[JohnnyPoozang]

Ok. If I hit the dummy every single time for 10k with Lava Lash and then hit it for 18k with 5 stacks of Searing Flames, then I guess that Searing Flames isn't bugged for increasing my damage by 80% instead of 100% but my calculations are wrong in some mysterious way. I'll write that down so I know it for the next time I test something. I'll write something else down as well - never test anything with a dagger because all calculations become obsolete (again in a very mysterious way) when you're using one. Rogue bugs apparently have no way to be tested, though.. Fuck rogues :(

 

Unleash Elements affects my Lava Lash all the time but I guess I'm just wrong and it's all me imagining things cause I didn't "normalizate", isn't it? Too bad then :(

 

Seriously I haven't got time to joke about it. Learn to actually test out things before making (bad) irony (and threads), as you're embarassing yourself. If you test out a normalized ability with a dagger you have to apply 1.7 as multiplier in the following formula: normalized_damage = base_weapon_damage + (X * Attack Power / 14), thing that you didn't even bother to do, because you don't even know how to apply it in LL formula. The 2k damage difference derives from that :), not your imaginary Searing Flames stacks giving 16% (loool) more damage instead of 20%.

 

Then again, stop to test things with low level weapons, do it with high level ones, it takes more time, but it's more accurate as it's the "condition" you're at level 90, as AGAIN, you aren't going around with level 5 weps in bgs or arenas. This is not retail, something is wrong with low level weps, I told you 100 times, try to test Windfury and you will see how crazy is Pandawow: with a low level wep swings procced hit for more than white damage (as it should), whereas with a level 90 wep the swings procced hit for less than white ones. Please explain this to me, how is it possible??

 

Ya put it on grammar mistakes, whereas you're the one who thought Lava Lash was a spell and thus was affected by Unleash Flame in Mop, then, understood the big BS you threw, you smartly corrected the posts on my thread, acting as you actually meant it was only in this server and not in retail. You're actually kind of fun mate, keep it going.:)

Edited January 27, 2015 by JohnnyPoozang

[dotadoom]

^ he is right

look at http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103 Effect #3

 

however with low gear http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=8232 adds a lot of attack power so this might be the reason for it's higher damage

 

PS

I don't think you guys should be losing your time doing that. You can't just go on, test every ability and post about it. I don't think gms even look at these threads. Just have some faith in the core mechanics and if something seems really broken (eg Hunter's abilities) it will be fixed and more likley reported in the russian threads. If you think something is bugged - just make a simple report like in the template version. You don't need to provide proof or anything, tester will try it themselves.

Edited January 27, 2015 by dotadoom

[kaibakor2012]

If you don't provide proof in the russian bug tracker they don't even mind testing it and just decline your thread immediately, though.

[JohnnyPoozang]

^ he is right

look at http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103 Effect #3

 

however with low gear http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=8232 adds a lot of attack power so this might be the reason for it's higher damage

 

PS

I don't think you guys should be losing your time doing that. You can't just go on, test every ability and post about it. I don't think gms even look at these threads. Just have some faith in the core mechanics and if something seems really broken (eg Hunter's abilities) it will be fixed and more likley reported in the russian threads. If you think something is bugged - just make a simple report like in the template version. You don't need to provide proof or anything, tester will try it themselves.

 

You're right, nice said.

 

But if you report without screens and proofs, you're 100% sure your thread will be ignored and for tricky spells like Windfury Weapon, even if a dev decided to test it out (a dev/tester will lickely test with low level weapons to lower the time needed to do so) he would be led into thinking it's all alright and thus closing the thread and negating the bug.

 

I want to try to speed up things, because this server has so much potential, what a pity that certain members of the staff aren't exactly up to it.

[Neff]

I explain, how it must work in this thread: (http://forum.pandawow.ru/showthread.php?t=118318&p=793931&viewfull=1#post793931)

 

Declined.