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tiggar47's [PvP Guide] Subtlety Rogue


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Posted (edited)

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Introduction ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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First off, I would like to say that I by no means claim, nor do I think, that I am the best rogue player out there. However I've done a fair amount of testing, theory crafting and research before posting this guide and I hope that it can be of help to the community as a collection of information. Secondly, not all of this information is coming straight from me. I will be using suggestions, tips and ideal gearing methods from various other guides as well as myself. I do not take full credit for all of the information presented here.

 

This guide is not just for this season alone, but rogue PvP in general, and I will keep it as up to date as possible. If you find anything that you believe may be out of date, please let me know in the comments and I will do my best to correct it.

 

My only request is that we keep this forum nice and clean. Constructive suggestions and discussion allows for much more positive response and results than coming in and drilling each other about how he/she is wrong about x/y. Now that all that is out of the way, I’ll jump straight in.

 

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~~~~~~~~~~ Table of Contents ~~~~~~~~~~

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Chapter One: Itemization and Stat Priority

 

Chapter Two: Gemming and Enchants

 

Chapter Three: Best PvP Professions

 

Chapter Four: Best PvP Races

 

Chapter Five: Preparing to deal damage

 

Chapter Six:Explained abilities / Rotation

 

Chapter Seven: Talents and Glyphs

 

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~~~~ Chapter One: Itemization and Stat Priority ~~~~

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As the best and most ideal stats change frequently as various stats are buffed and nerfed. Currently the stat priority for Rogues in PvP as Subtlety spec is as followed:

 

Hit(3-9% Cap) > Agility > Expertise(3%) > Mastery > PvP Power > Crit > Haste >

 

Hit Rating: Obvious one here. You can't hit your target if you keep missing your abilities! The 3% hit cap assures that none of your special abilities will miss [i.E. Blind, Backstab]. However, white auto attack damage will still miss. The hit cap for white damage is extremely high and isn't worth going for in PvP. Note: Anything above 3% hit rating is a waste of rating and can be allocated into another stat!

 

Agility: Another obvious one here. Agility is our best PvP main stat. Agility gives both Attack power and Crit. The ratio is 1:2 Agility per Attack Power point. This is a very important stat as Subtlety as a large portion of our damage comes from achieving a critical strike. Subtlety also has the trait Sinister Calling, which increases your total agility by 30%. Agility is the best stat currently because gear in PvP is scaled to a specific item level. Any item level higher than the set number is scaled down. So, the only way to get more agility on a given piece of armor is to gem for it, and thus is our only way to increase our attack power when in best-in-slot equipment. PvP power is still of great use and benefit, but is now behind Agility.

 

Expertise: Expertise lowers the chance of an enemy player dodging or parrying your abilities. There is no 'cap' for Expertise, you can stack it as high as you want. But it isn't ideal to pour all of your rating from gemming and reforging into expertise. 3% is a good amount to have, 6% is ideal as it will assure that caster classes will never dodge you, pesky mages!

 

Mastery: Mastery has increased in popularity in MoP compared to Cata. Mastery vastly increases the power and effectiveness of our finishing moves. This effects all damaging finishing moves and Slice and Dice's haste improvement. With the improvement of Mastery in MoP, our hardest hitting move is now Eviscerate by a large margin (compared to Ambush in Cata).

 

PvP Power: PvP power scaling has been reduced slightly since the beginning of MoP. While it is still a very useful stat, you gain a good amount directly from your PvP gear. PvP power no longer takes priority over Agility for damage increasing. I wouldn't suggest gemming full PvP power as we used to, but instead going for purple Agil/PvP Power hybrid gems in blue sockets at most.

 

Crit: Critical Strike rating is very important as sub. A high crit chance assures effective pressure and high burst output during your offensive cool-down up-times. Currently, while critical strike is a powerful stat, the amount of crit % received from reforging is rather low. It is likely that as we go through the expansion we will gain enough crit from reforge allocation. I advise against gemming it in any form as mastery always takes priority over crit.

 

Haste: Haste increases energy regeneration speed and attack speed. While it does increase our damage output, it would require far too much allocation into the stat to make it any useful. In the current state, it is the least useful damage stat to Sub rogues. Some say "Well, it increases energy regeneration so I could attack more during a Sdance." Well, here is the thing. If you prioritize crit, you give yourself higher burst damage potential. Haste would give you more sustained damage, and in MoP sustained damage isn't the way you land kills(Was it ever, really?). Rogues are, and probably always will be, about burst damage. My personal opinion is that I would be surprised when I see the day Haste outweighs Mastery and Crit for damage stat priority.

 

PvP Resilience: Resilience reduces the amount of damage you take from other players and their pets in PvP. PvP Resilience is baseline at 72.00% for players now. Stacking Resilience in the current build isn't really necessary and is up to personal opinion and desire. I suggest against it, but to each their own. Having resilience gives a bit more cushion room, but with Rogues receiving a few survival buffs compared to their state in early MoP, resilience no longer takes priority over the traditional stats.

 

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~~~~~ Chapter Two: Gemming and Enchants ~~~~~

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Gemming:

 

There is room for personal play style or opinion here, however I will suggest what I believe and have found to be the most effective.

 

Meta: Tyrannical Primal Diamond > Agile Primal Diamond

Red:

Delicate Primordial Ruby

Yellow:Adept Vermilion Onyx

Blue:Assassin's Imperial Amethyst

Belt Buckle And Blacksmithing Sockets: Delicate Primordial Ruby

 

I've seen people gem 100% full agility gems in everything, ignoring socket bonuses but that is up to personal opinion. I like socket bonuses. Agility trumps PvP Power, but PvP power still helps. Mastery increases our eviscerate damage and Haste given from Slice and Dice significatly.

 

Enchants:

 

Head: No existing Head Enchants

Shoulder: Greater Tiger Claw Inscription

Cloak: Swordguard Embroidery > Enchant Cloak - Superior Critical Strike

Chest: Enchant Chest - Super Resilience

Wrists: Enchant Bracer - Greater Agility

Hands: Enchant Gloves - Superior Mastery

Waist: Living Steel Belt Buckle

Legs: Shadowleather Leg Armor

Feet: Enchant Boots - Blurred Speed

Weapon(Main-Hand): Enchant Weapon - Bloody Dancing Steel > Enchant Weapon - Dancing Steel

Weapon(Off-Hand): Enchant Weapon - Glorious Tyranny > Living Steel Weapon Chain

 

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~~~~~ Chapter Three: Best PvP Professions ~~~~~

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Tailoring: Ironically, Tailoring has risen to the top of PvP professions in 5.4. This is because of the item level change to PvP armor. Currently in structured PvP scenarios (I.E. Arena and Battlegrounds) the item level of PvP is scaled to a specific amount. Meaning the only way to get an increased amount of damage is by gemming or enchanting your equipment. With that said, the only way to get a significant damage or burst increase is by a Proc or use effect. The Swordguard Embroidery is simply amazing for this reason, and out-shines any "permanent" stat fortifications provided by other professions (I.E. Blacksmithing or Jewelcrafting).

 

[swordguard Embroidery: Embroiders a magical pattern into your cloak, causing your damaging melee and ranged attacks to sometimes increase your attack power by 4000 for 15 sec.]

 

Engineering: This is hands down, no questions asked, one of the best and my personal favorite PvP professions. Setting the goofy stuff aside, Synapse Springs allows for a on-command burst trinket. This has grown even more in popularity as of the PvP item level scaling in 5.4. Many rogues now prioritize the proc PvP trinket over the use effect because it provides more agility. Having a use effect trinket on top of that, that you can use when you see your proc is amazing. There is a 10 second Internal Cool-down between the use of Synapse Springs and Malevolent Gladiator's Badge of Conquest. They cannot be stacked, so keep this in mind and time your burst and cool-downs accordingly! As a side note. Nitro boots and Burst of Speed can stack, and every rogue with engineering should try it. It is probably one of the funniest things I've seen.

 

Jevelcrafting:I could also recommend using this proffesion.Only reason so is because of Serpen's Eye Gems.

 

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~~~~~~~~ Chapter Four: Best PvP Races ~~~~~~~~

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Alliance:

 

Human: This is a very common choice for rogues in PvP because the human racial acting as a PvP trinket. This opens up a trinket slot for rogues to use for more itemization of various stats with either PvP or PvE trinkets. The common choice is to use double use effect trinkets and linking both to Shadow Dance, that way each shadow dance you do has a trinket boost for more damage!

 

Night Elf: Night elves are also a very strong race for Alliance rogues. Shadowmeld allows you to instantly drop combat and gives you a guaranteed restealth. Find Weakness adds a huge amount of damage, so shadowmelding into a stealth opener can increase your pressure significantly. You can also use shadowmeld to immune different forms of CC. “Veteran” rogues may remember that if you timed a vanish correctly, you would immune incoming damage, crowd control, etc. The new vanish doesn't allow for this, but shadowmeld still works! It takes some practice, but can be very clutch when going for a kill and you cannot stop the enemy from peeling you.

 

Horde:

 

Forsaken Undead: Undead are the most popular Horde race for rogues in PvP. Will of the Forsaken gives you another way out of Charm, Fear and Sleep effects. Sharing a 30 second internal cool-down with your main PvP trinket and resting on a 2 minute cool-down. This is very helpful for squeezing in an emergency trinket against all those fear teams out there, as it seems every team these days has a fear on it!

 

Orc: Orcs have been gaining a lot of popularity in MoP. With rogue survival being weaker than they were in Cata, the main way we die is to a hard switch or something involving a stun. The Orc racial lowers the duration of stun effects on you by 15% and provides a nice survival boost to rogues. Blood Fury also adds yet another cool-down to our burst-heavy class, granting an on-use attack power boost!

 

I personally would recommend you if you wan't Alliance take Human Rogue.

 

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~~~~ Chapter Five: Preparing to deal damage ~~~~

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This is one of the areas where rogues make the biggest mistakes. First off, the player needs to realize that rogues are burst-oriented. Many classes [i.E. Warriors and Death Knights] can pump out seemingly endless amounts of heavy damage without really needing to pop their offensive cool-downs, we rogues have to pick our kill window carefully and unload quickly using our heavy burst damage cool-downs. Here are some tips to help with this:

 

Sanguinary Vein: Sanguinary Vein increases our damage against the target when Rupture, Garrote or Crimson Tempest bleeds are applied to the target by 16%(soon to be 20% in 5.2). This is absolutely mandatory to have applied before you even consider bursting a target.

 

Note: Sanguinary Vein can be applied via Hemo ONLY if you get the glyph for it.

 

Slice and Dice: Slice and Dice increases our attack speed, which is also improved by the Sub mastery! As of MoP, Slice and Dice also gives the rogue the Energetic Recovery effect, increasing energy regeneration by 8 energy every 2 seconds while Slice and Dice is active. This is absolutely mandatory to have rolling before you begin bursting.

----Always remmember too keep your Slice and Dice up as quickly as possible to maintain Energy Pooling----

 

Find Weakness: I think this is where a lot of rogues make their mistakes in trying to deal damage. Find Weakness lowers the target's armor by 70% for 10 seconds, and is applied by using Ambush, Garrote or Cheap Shot. This is by far one of our most important ways to assure heavy burst.

 

Energy Pooling: As a famous rogue once said, "Energy is like mana. Except you don't hear mages going oom every couple seconds". That being said, pooling energy as a rogue is extremely important. Sure, it is important to damage your target, but doing all of your damage spread out because you spam Hemo or Backstab every time it lights up on your interface isn't going to get you far. However, if you save up all your energy at once and burst using a full bar of energy, your damage will be far more scary for the player and any healers near by! I've forced many cool-downs and trinkets by simply pooling energy and doing a basic burst, tricking teams into thinking I was going for a kill.

----Energy Pooling can be maintained by keeping an eye on energy consumption and Slice and Dice activty----

 

Note: Your energy should ALWAYS be pooled to maximum or near maximum when going for burst with any of your offensive cool-downs. Energy pooling isn't something you should only do around burst attempts either. If you are constantly sitting at 10 energy spamming hemo or backstab as soon as you have enough energy, you won’t have enough energy to control, or counter an enemy player [i.E Gouge/Focus Kidney Shot]. Try and get into the habit of playing with some energy left in the tank constantly throughout a match. Damage is great, but rogues bring so much control and other utility to the table as well. Make sure you have enough yellow stuff to take advantage of it.

 

 

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~~~~ Chapter Six: Explained abilities / Rotation ~~~~

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Hemorrhage: Is your main attack. This is the ability you pretty much spam to get combo points.

 

Backstab: Is your main attack to use when a player is suffering from your Kidney or Cheap. You can't be fooling around finding players backs, that's why you only use this while someone is stunned.

 

Rupture: Is your best dot effect. Use it in fights where you know he'll survive your opener.

 

Slice and Dice: Is where you get your energy from. [Always keep it up]

 

Eviscerate is used to pump out damage with your combo points.In addition: Having trinket[Equip/Use] active can couse serius Damage.

 

Kidney Shot: Is your best friend in any situation. Use it wisely.

 

Shadow Dance: Is your strongest offensive ability. Again, use it wisely.Don't just use it before you have to have a reason to pop it. Pump damage or peel?[Depends on Situation and target Health]

 

Shadow Blades is extremely deadly combined with Shadow Dance + your trinket(s). Try to force cooldowns with only Dance at first. If you can get a trinket, it's perfect, cause next Dance, you'll be able to kill him with Blades + Dance[Gives Amazing Damage output]

 

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~~~~ Openers ~~~~

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Opener on melees/casters who can't use defensive cooldowns in stun:

 

Premeditation > Slice and Dice > Cheap Shot > Rupture > Shadow Dance + Trinket[Prideful/Grievous Gladiator's Badge of Conquest] > Ambush > Kidney Shot[3 or more Combo Points] > Marked for Death[Adds 5 Combo Points] > Eviscerate > Spam Ambush[until Shadow Dance wears off]

 

No Cooldowns Opener:

 

Premeditation > Slice and Dice > Garrote > Cheap Shot > Backstab > Eviscerate > Marked for Death > Eviscerate > Backstab/Hemo[2x] > Kidney Shot

 

Burst Opener:

 

Premeditation > Slice and Dice > Garrote > Cheap Shot > Shadow Blades + Shadow Dance + Trinket > Ambush > Eviscerate > Marked for Death > Eviscerate > Spam Ambush[until Shadow Dance wears off]

 

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~~~~ Chapter Seven: Talents and Glyphs ~~~~

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-----Talents:

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Level 15:

Subterfuge: Your Stealth breaks 3 seconds after dealing or receiving hostile actions, rather than doing so immediately.

 

This talent is extremely powerful in arena, as it gives a 3 second protection time on your stealth. This means if you are broken out of stealth, you are protected for 3 seconds before actually fading out. This allows you an opportunity to still get off your opening move. However, this talent really shines in terms of utility. You can get two cheap shots off at once, and with the Glyph of Cheapshot adding one additional .5 seconds onto the stun, that is 4.5 second CC's on two targets before you even leave stealth! This is very good for peeling and controlling multiple targets quickly. This talent synergizes perfectly with Cloak and Dagger, which adds a 40 yard range shadow step onto all of your stealth openers. This is by far the best talent for Subtlety currently.

 

Level 30:

Nerve Strike: A successful Kidney Shot or Cheap Shot also reduces the damage dealt by the target by 50% and the healing done by the target by 10% for 6 seconds after the effect fades.

 

This talent is now the most popular in 5.4 and shines the most when peeling for your allies. It works very well with Subterfuge, where you can vanish and cheap shot two targets for stun control, and then damage reduction shortly after. You could use this against any team who will be focusing your partners over you, as the damage reduction will have a very high up-time while peeling. Nerve strike could be considered over Combat Readiness due to the two minute cool-down on Combat Readiness. In fact, unless you are going against an extremely bursty team, I often times keep Nerve Strike over Combat Readiness even when I am the focus target.

 

Level 45:

Cheat Death: An attack that would otherwise be fatal will instead reduce you no lower than 10% of your maximum health, and damage taken will be reduced by 85% for 3 sec. This effect cannot occur more than once per 90 seconds.Increases your surviveability in Combat.

 

Level 60:

Burst Of Speed: Increases movement speed by 70% for 4 seconds and removes any movement-slowing effects. Does not break stealth.

Couses you too not lose Momentum of your burst with movement-slowing effects.

 

Level 75:

Prey on the Weak: When you disable an enemy with Kidney Shot, Cheap Shot, Gouge, Sap, or Blind, they suffer 10% increased damage from all sources for the duration of the effect.

 

Or:

 

Paralytic Poison: Coats your weapons with a Non-Lethal Poison that lasts for 60 min. Each strike has a 20% chance of poisoning the enemy for 15 sec. Stacks up to 4 times on a single target, and upon a fifth application, the enemy will be stunned for 4 seconds.

 

This section is changed depending on you'r current situation.

 

Level 90:

Marked For Death: Mark the target, instantly generating 5 combo points on them. If the target dies within 1 min Marked For Death's cool-down is reset.

This is the most obvious choice because of quick combo points generation.

 

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-----Glyphs:

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Major:

Glyph of Blind - Mandatory. Unless you are 100% positive you will never be blinding a dotted target, which is very unlikely and situational, use this glyph. All classes in the game have DoT effects, this glyph makes it possible to get a clean blind off without it breaking from DoTs. The only time this glyph should not be taken is if you are using Dirty Tricks for whatever reason.

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Glyph of Cheap Shot - Strongly Recommended. Allows for stronger CC chains, especially against melee, which allow for a larger burst window. Remember, DRs initiate at the start of a CC effect, not at the end, so this glyph is very strong!

 

Or:

 

Glyph of Garrote - Strongly Recommended. Allows for strong control against casters and healers, and is also effective against Death Knights and Enhancement Shaman, as DKs cannot icebound and Enhancement Shaman cannot drop totems or use stormstrike when silenced!

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Glyph of Hemorraghing Veins - Recommended. This glyph can be very helpful if you are having trouble keeping Rupture up. It also shines really well in 2v2's and Battlegrounds, giving you the extra combo points to use for Eviscerates. Rupture damage can help, but it really is sub-par and I wouldn't knock down anyone who got this glyph for that reason. However, Cheap Shot, Garrote and Blind glyphs are all better, and it should be carefully considered when removing one for this glyph. Often times, it will depend upon what team make up you are fighting, or what you would rather have an edge on in battlegrounds.

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Minor:

 

Glyph of Poisons - Recommended. Allows quick application to poisons if a change is needed mid arena match!

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Glyph of Decoy - Believe it or not, this glyph can actually trick players. It doesn't happen often, but it is funny when it does.

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Glyph of Disguise - Funny glyph to use on PvP servers. Just pickpocket a nearby creature, and begin walking around when flagged. A unknowing little lowbie will run up and activate your trap card! I'd like to hear success stories if anyone goes out and tries this!

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~~~~ End of All Chapters ~~~~

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Later on i will add Macros and Addons.

 

If you need any Help or don't understand PM and i will resolve it.

 

Please leave comments so i can hear what you people think about this guide, that would help me alot.Thanks

Edited by tiggar47
  • Like 2
Posted
I don't get the point of making theese guides when you can easily find guides from multi glad players that plays on live. Just saying...

 

I am sorry but retail and private servers are two different things. Builts and playstyles arent the same sometimes. :)

Posted

"not all of this information is coming straight from me. I will be using suggestions, tips and ideal gearing methods from various other guides as well as myself. I do not take full credit for all of the information presented here."

 

what u men not u? u copy guide from blizard pvp server or u craft? i not understand all. i like it much but im curios who help u with guide little?

 

im enjoy guide so im vote up! :D

Posted
"not all of this information is coming straight from me. I will be using suggestions, tips and ideal gearing methods from various other guides as well as myself. I do not take full credit for all of the information presented here."

 

what u men not u? u copy guide from blizard pvp server or u craft? i not understand all. i like it much but im curios who help u with guide little?

 

im enjoy guide so im vote up! :D

 

I main rogue for 8 Years.And i have enough knowledge to make it myself.I will post links tomorrow.Stay tuned for upcoming video.And twitch streaming aswell

Posted
I main rogue for 8 Years.And i have enough knowledge to make it myself.I will post links tomorrow.Stay tuned for upcoming video.And twitch streaming aswell

 

no i mean like im see something in guide before this guide u no what i mean? like i see something before! some1 write something before u! u make guide but im mean like u copy something from other guide yes?

 

95% ur guide and 5% from other guide?

Posted
no i mean like im see something in guide before this guide u no what i mean? like i see something before! some1 write something before u! u make guide but im mean like u copy something from other guide yes?

 

95% ur guide and 5% from other guide?

 

Yes i have used couple expresions but rest is mine.And im glad you like it.Took me some time

Posted (edited)
you forgot to give credits to the guy who wrote this guide

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7979928607

 

PS also this info is outdated (from 5.4.2) and your burst opener is kinda shit... (no offence; the no coldown one is fine though)

 

That's is intresting what you said..And yes my openers might be shit.But are strong enough to beat a crap out of you :)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

tiggar, are you Lefice?

 

Did somone tell you im from Retail?If so tell me who imma kill him

Edited by tiggar47
Posted

Since its 5.2 Guide nothing much has changed i have copyed some of spec explanations.

Arena comps will be coming soon i am doing some tests for addons.And this time i will make video guide for ones who wan't explanation.I am also seeing new posibilys of Macros and Addons new features.Thanks and stay tuned for upcoming update

Posted (edited)
@Furmetal , @Fizxxzif He is not Lefice he just copy pasted his Guide and No he is not 3.1k at retail since i won vs him in a 1v1 as a RESTO, He doesn't even know how to kick a spell cast as a rogue. And I know lefice on Retail and no That's not you since Lefice is not a Serb. You are just a sad kid who doesn't know to play his class and talks big. That is Lefice's Guide { http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7979928607 } And no , you are not 8 years main rogue Lmao , you cant even reach 2.2k mmr.... And lefice quitted retail at 2/10/2014 You can't fool anyone. Edited by Weegee
Posted

Tiggar47.

 

Please aprove that you're Lefice. Since me and weegee have known Lefice for really quite time.

 

Lefice has played 9 Years of retail. And you stated that you've played 8 years, that does NOT show you're Lefice.

 

Lefice Quitted World of Warcraft around 2nd month of 2014. Which you said: http://i.imgur.com/xPCzS7X.png

 

WoD got released in November 13th according to Wiki: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_(World_of_Warcraft) http://wow.gamepedia.com/Expansion

 

Please if you're posting guide, give credits to the player who originally wrote.

  • Like 2
Posted

As you say.But i didn't copy paste that guide.And weegee you are little arrogant boy.No wonder you have that much hate.Get life man you are sitin 12 hours on that pc and living like a fool.Keep your thouhts together.Or you won't be anything better then decapitated chicken.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

And 1 more thing.I do not remmember logging last time 2014.Think you should reconsider activity log before you talk too much for kid with your low IQ level

Posted (edited)
As you say.But i didn't copy paste that guide.And weegee you are little arrogant boy.No wonder you have that much hate.Get life man you are sitin 12 hours on that pc and living like a fool.Keep your thouhts together.Or you won't be anything better then decapitated chicken.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

And 1 more thing.I do not remmember logging last time 2014.Think you should reconsider activity log before you talk too much for kid with your low IQ level

 

Log in your bnet and show us that its your account with the character Lefice ** On the Bnet Forums and In-Game too **. And no i don't sit 12 hrs , i have a real life which is more important than games ;) And You did copy paste the Guide, you may have changed bit stuff here and there but you are NOT Lefice. So stop lying kid. Ive beaten you as a Resto in a 1v1 , you cant even Kick a Spell cast as a rogue , Nor even reach 2.2k mmr. ** You can if you get carried ofc ** Nice try kid , keep lying , i want to laugh more. Or even better , Show it live on your " Stream", lmao

Edited by Weegee
  • Like 1

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