JohnnyPoozang Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Tested on the FUN server to the date 09.10.2014 Spell name: http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash How it is bugged: The ability does approximately 10% less damage than it should, from a last test (see below) it's clear that http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=77223 isn't scaling properly. How it should work: As the tooltip says, 300% off-hand weapon damage, that's increased by 40% thanks to Flametongue Weapon, by Enhancement mastery http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=77223, by 100% thanks to 5 stacks of Searing Flames and finally by 7% for Flametongue Weapon. Priority 10/10, as it's the main source of damage for enhancement shamans, alongside http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=117014/elemental-blast#comments, when outside burst. Calculation and proof: Average weapon damage with http://www.db.pandawow.me?item=102600/prideful-gladiators-cleaver: 5'480.8 x 2.6= 14'250.08 DPS (calculated with AP): 35'023/14= 2'501.642 Normalization (http://www.wowwiki.com/Normalization): 2'501.642 x 2.4= 6'003.94 Lava Lash formula application (off-hand weapon damage penalty is 50%): ((6'003.94 + 14'250.08)x3)/2= 30'381.031 Damage modifiers application: Flametongue Weapon -> 30'381.031 x 1.4= 42'533.442 http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=77223 -> 42'533.442 x 1.555= 66'139.5 5 stacks of Searing Flames -> 66'139.5 x 2= 132'279.004 7% bonus of Flametongue Weapon -> 132'279.004 x 1.07= 141'538.534 Average Lava Lash damage calculated: 141'538 Average Lava Lash damage tested: 126'199 Damage difference= 10.83% Testing screens: [ATTACH=CONFIG]58880[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]58879[/ATTACH] Additionally, I tested another time out of curiosity, to check http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=77223 scaling and I found out that's there is something wrong, as you can see in this screen: [ATTACH=CONFIG]58921[/ATTACH] With 66% mastery (and a bit more AP than before), the average damage of http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash doesn't increase for the right amount, that is ~10%. In fact the damage increase is for about 3%, instead of 10%! Ps: Some spells haven't the link to Wowhead as in the new expansion Warlords of Draenor they have been deleted from the game. Edited January 26, 2015 by JohnnyPoozang 1 Link to comment
Quasimodo Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Tho it seems like it does a bit too low damage, it's most certainly not because of the 7% damage Flametongue Weapon that you propsoe. As it might violent common sense, Lava Lash is not a spell, it is ability therefore can not benefits from 7% more damage from Flametongue Weapon enchant. According to those sources: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1119453580 http://wowpedia.org/Lava_Lash Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) No, you are wrong man, read the tooltip carefully: it says " increasing magical damage done" and Fire is a magic school. Lava lash benefits from the 7% bonus since Cataclysm. Then, I'm not saying with 100% security the bonus is bugged, but I wrote it as a possibility. The sources you listed are discussing about Lava Lash not being affected by Unleash Flame 30% bonus damage, that's a completely different thing.^^ Edited October 9, 2014 by JohnnyPoozang Link to comment
Quasimodo Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 If Lava Lash somehow benefits from 7% bonus it would had to be a spell, and thus SHOULD benefit from Unleash Flame aswell, and it doesn't. That means it is ability - can be parry/dodged/blocked can not be resisted, also benefits from melee hit rating rather then spell hit rating. And lava lash doesn't benefits from 7% Flametognue Weapon enchant in cataclysm. Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 If Lava Lash somehow benefits from 7% bonus it would had to be a spell, and thus SHOULD benefit from Unleash Flame aswell, and it doesn't. That means it is ability - can be parry/dodged/blocked can not be resisted, also benefits from melee hit rating rather then spell hit rating. And lava lash doesn't benefits from 7% Flametognue Weapon enchant in cataclysm. It doesn't matter if it's a spell or not... Where are you reading "spell" in the Flametongue Weapon tooltip? Lava Lash benefits from the 7% simply because it does magical (fire) damage. Link to comment
Quasimodo Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Increases magical damage done by X is enough. And as I said earlier it does violent common sense, Lava Lash damage was always reducted by enemy armor even tho tooltip says Fire damage. It incredibly matters if it's a spell or not. Can't argue like this anymore wowiki explains a lot to me, so does the unleash topic from blizzard forum. It works exactly like DK's abilities not spells. Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Increases magical damage done by X is enough. And as I said earlier it does violent common sense, Lava Lash damage was always reducted by enemy armor even tho tooltip says Fire damage. It incredibly matters if it's a spell or not. Can't argue like this anymore wowiki explains a lot to me, so does the unleash topic from blizzard forum. It works exactly like DK's abilities not spells. no... Lava Lash bypasses armor completely... As for the 7% bonus read here http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic/125327-enhancement-43-ptr-spellpower-deprived/page-2 Now please let's move on. Edited October 9, 2014 by JohnnyPoozang Link to comment
yakueyg Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 lava lash damage is not normalized otherwise i would be using a dagger. As for your tests i think u are right for lava lash dmg being incorrect an easy way to test is with calculating the absolute minimum dmg it can do, for example, my off hand hits from 7984 to 12260 which means min and max for lava lash is 7984*3*1.4*1.47(mastery)*1.07*2 (searing flames) and 12260*3*1.4*1.47(mastery)*1.07*2 (searing flames) = 105,487 to 161,983. since my lava lash is hitting 95k to 140k on dummy on the x100 server you know something is up. The modifiers for lava lash being mastery, flametongue 7% bonus, flametongues 40% off hand bonus and searing flames. Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) lava lash damage is not normalized otherwise i would be using a dagger. As for your tests i think u are right for lava lash dmg being incorrect an easy way to test is with calculating the absolute minimum dmg it can do, for example, my off hand hits from 7984 to 12260 which means min and max for lava lash is 7984*3*1.4*1.47(mastery)*1.07*2 (searing flames) and 12260*3*1.4*1.47(mastery)*1.07*2 (searing flames) = 105,487 to 161,983. since my lava lash is hitting 95k to 140k on dummy on the x100 server you know something is up. The modifiers for lava lash being mastery, flametongue 7% bonus, flametongues 40% off hand bonus and searing flames. Lava lash damage is normalized:http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103/lava-lash (see below effect #3) as are Mortal Strike, Overpower, Ambush, Backstab, etc. You wouldn't want to use daggers because otherwise the multiplier would be 1.7, instead of 2.4 AND the average weapon damage would be a lot smaller than with a slow one-handed weapon. However, try to test with a mastery increase and post here your results. According to my last test (last screen) http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=77223 isn't scaling properly, at least for http://www.db.pandawow.me?spell=60103. I would advice you to do a test session without buffs, then one with http://www.db.pandawow.me?item=76083 and http://www.db.pandawow.me?item=81414. Edited October 11, 2014 by JohnnyPoozang Link to comment
yakueyg Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 srry didn't see the normalization Link to comment
garlikas Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 sry for posting here but maybe some one will make new thread.So can anyone report Fire elemental totem bug,fire elemental doesn't move and stays in 1 place,earth element is working fine tho.Thx in advance :) Link to comment
dfabel Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 sry for posting here but maybe some one will make new thread.So can anyone report Fire elemental totem bug,fire elemental doesn't move and stays in 1 place,earth element is working fine tho.Thx in advance :) It was working but something happned on 5.4.7. And the problem is only that is not moving if someone stays near him it attacks. It will be great to fix it. Link to comment
Twigger Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 It was working but something happned on 5.4.7. And the problem is only that is not moving if someone stays near him it attacks. It will be great to fix it. 5.4.8* Man. Link to comment
dfabel Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) 5.4.8* Man. U don't say. I just telling that the problem is from 5.4.7 with 270 posts don't you think i will know that the server was updated? Edited October 13, 2014 by dfabel Link to comment
Cooderz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 U don't say. I just telling that the problem is from 5.4.7 with 270 don't you think i will know that the server was updated? Chill down mate, no need to throw hate, everyone so grangy geez Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Good... Now however stick to the thread topic. It's a report about Lava lash not any fire, wind or earth elemental. Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) BUMP!! I'm sick and tired to hit for 100k LLs with 70k AP!!!!!! Juster if you are reading this, please look at Enhancement mastery, there is definitely something wrong with it, spells aren't scaling as they should, at least Lava Lash Edited November 9, 2014 by JohnnyPoozang Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 bumppppppppppppppppppppp Link to comment
kaibakor2012 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Just got a low damage offhand weapon. My offhand damage normalized to 2,246 - 2,251. I made my calculations using 2,249. Lava Lash was actually doing a bit more damage than it should for a while. I tested every single step of the following equation: 2,249 * 1.4844 (Mastery) * 1.4 (Flametongue) * 1.07 (Flametongue again) * 1.3 (Unleash Elements). The damage by then should've been pretty much a fixed 19,504. However, I hit the dummy for 21,262. The last step was getting 5 stacks of Searing Flames. Should've gotten 19,504 * 2 = 39,007 damage. Instead I did 36,724. So I guess that's not really a Lava Lash bug but more of a Searing Flames one... Yet.. still a really really minor bug. The damage difference is barely 6%. Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Just got a low damage offhand weapon. My offhand damage normalized to 2,246 - 2,251. I made my calculations using 2,249. Lava Lash was actually doing a bit more damage than it should for a while. I tested every single step of the following equation: 2,249 * 1.4844 (Mastery) * 1.4 (Flametongue) * 1.07 (Flametongue again) * 1.3 (Unleash Elements). The damage by then should've been pretty much a fixed 19,504. However, I hit the dummy for 21,262. The last step was getting 5 stacks of Searing Flames. Should've gotten 19,504 * 2 = 39,007 damage. Instead I did 36,724. So I guess that's not really a Lava Lash bug but more of a Searing Flames one... Yet.. still a really really minor bug. The damage difference is barely 6%. NO,tests must be done with a high item level weapon, as here low damaging weps act in a strange way. For example if you try to test Windfury Weapon out with a low item level weapon it seems to work, while in fact with a level 90 weapon it doesn't. You aren't going around at level 90 with level 10 weapons, so... The only difference between a low and a high damaging wep is the time needed to test it out, so I don't see where the problems lies. In reality the damage lost is much higher than your 6% or my 10%, as if you try to raise you mastery the spell won't scale properly. In 5.4 Lava Lash should of be the hardest hitting ability outside burst after Elemental Blast, here it seems a joke though. In fact I'm critting 70k LL with a 536 Ilvl enha with 60% mastery, reaching 100-110k only with trinkets and Elemental Blast procs (and maybe an additional 10% mastery from Bg buffs). Edited January 18, 2015 by JohnnyPoozang Link to comment
kaibakor2012 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 No, tests with low ilvl weapons are just fine.. I've tested a lot of things with both low ilvl items and high ilvl items and the results aren't different at all. Like you said, though, low ilvl weapons save a lot of time so they are preferable. Obviously you are doing something wrong cause on my 509 ilvl shaman I just hit the dummy for 440k. And I don't have either a cloak, nor a gloves enchant. I have no flask and buffs as well. My Elemental Blast proc isn't Mastery either. 440k is 130k in PvP (considering my low PvP Power). I could only imagine hitting for 200k+ (in PvP), hell even 300k, with your gear, proper enchants, buffs and Elemental Blast mastery proc. Proof (sorry for my messy UI): http://s16.postimg.org/6xvvb4ask/Wo_WScrn_Shot_011915_022300.jpg - - - Добавлено - - - In fact, I just calculated, that with my off-hand damage considering the Agility from Elemental Blast (no Mastery procs), Bloody Dancing Steel enchant and the proc trinket my Lava Lash crits should average to 447,731 damage. On the screenshot I hit for 439,715. I'd say that the difference is barely noticable. In PvP, the damage difference would be 2361 damage, lol. Link to comment
garlikas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Just got a low damage offhand weapon. My offhand damage normalized to 2,246 - 2,251. I made my calculations using 2,249. Lava Lash was actually doing a bit more damage than it should for a while. I tested every single step of the following equation: 2,249 * 1.4844 (Mastery) * 1.4 (Flametongue) * 1.07 (Flametongue again) * 1.3 (Unleash Elements). . Unleash Elements increas lava lash dmg ?you got smth wrong here... it works only for spell, not physical attack Link to comment
kaibakor2012 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Unleash Elements increas lava lash dmg ?you got smth wrong here... it works only for spell, not physical attack Dude... Unleash Elements increases Lava Lash's damage. It didn't increase it in Cata but in MoP it does. What are you smoking? And Lava Lash isn't physical lol. Edited January 19, 2015 by kaibakor2012 Link to comment
JohnnyPoozang Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Dude... Unleash Elements increases Lava Lash's damage. It didn't increase it in Cata but in MoP it does. What are you smoking? And Lava Lash isn't physical lol. So you write here with the purpose of schooling us about how to test things, and then you write a complete BS as above? Sorry man, but you lost all the reliability you may had. As for Unleash Flame, jesus even rocks know that Lava Lash isn't a spell, thus is not affected. Then you can't test a spell/ability damage with a single hit, for obvious reasons. You must test it for like 5 min or more on a dummy, then have an addon like I have to calculate the average damage of normal hits ((max hit + min hit)/2). If you want to correct other people testing, please be at least sure that you know how to actually test things out before. Then again, the difference in damage is much bigger as I calculated on the current stats I had when I did those tests back in october. There is definitely something wrong with mastery scaling. I repeat it again, I'm hitting for 75K Lava Lashes with 536 Ilvl, reaching the peaks at 120k with all procs up and I'm talking with about 90k AP. Edited January 21, 2015 by JohnnyPoozang Link to comment
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